While It’s Compiling: Skills Matter interviews Bodil Stokke

Bodil Stokke

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This week on While It’s Compiling, we talked to Bodil Stokke; a frequent conference speaker in the fields of Functional Programming and internet technologies, and co-organiser of three annual developer conferences in her home town of Oslo. We caught up with her to discuss what she’s been up to in the Functional world.

1. What attracted you to functional languages in the first place?

It was a gradual process. Python used to be my main language back in the 90s, and coming from things like C++ I approached it mostly through its OO capabilities. I’d been aware from the start of Python’s Functions being first class, but it took me a while to realise the implications of this. A few years in, I was so attached to the idea of first class functions that I couldn’t do without them.

This, along with industry trends, led inexorably to Javascript. Eventually, it led to Node replacing Python as my go-to runtime for personal projects. And, as all things Node must, it led to so much frustration I decided enough was enough and I was going to start using a real Functional language. This led to spending a few days learning the basics of Haskell—and even that brief exercise changed my perspective on programming forever. I ended up spending the next three years with Clojure, but knowing even a little Haskell makes you a better programmer in any language, especially another functional one. Clojure very effectively highlighted what in my mind is the core value of Functional Programming: structuring code through composition, not the peculiar OO notion of inheritance. These days, though, I’m less interested in Functional programming than I am in exploring the idea of type systems. Clojure and Haskell both seem dull in comparison to things like Idris.

 2. What are you working on?

I’ve got a long running project exploring programming language design where I’m trying to build a modern typed Lisp, called BODOL. I spend a lot of time evolving my Emacs setup, and have an ambition to turn Emacs into a proper desktop environment, so I can use it for absolutely everything. And for a living I write Javascript game engines using various Functional compile-to-JS languages, the goal being to reduce the time spent building each individual game to as close to zero as possible. Functional languages are fantastic for this, because they excel at abstraction in a way traditional OO can’t hope to rival.

3. Do you work in only FP languages, or does the project you are working on have some FP code and some OO/Procedure code? If so, how does that fit together?

 I try to avoid non-functional languages when possible, and when I do have to write actual Javascript, I do it in a strictly Functional style, even to the point of employing immutable data structures whenever I can. Mutable state is Satan’s handmaiden.

4. What is one piece of advice you can give to new programmers?

Two things stand out. First, read the paper “Out of the Tar Pit” by Moseley & Marks, or all your code will be awful and you won’t know why. Second, always ask yourself, “would Dijkstra have liked this?”

5. You’ve recently moved to London – have you experienced much of the FP community in the UK capital yet?

One of the reasons I moved here in the first place was the amazing Clojure community. The Haskell community is even more amazing—not so much because they’re great people (too early to tell, though I’m sure they must be) but because where else in the world do you regularly get almost 100 people attending a Haskell meetup?

6. What would you like to ask the community?

When will there be a London Idris Meetup?


Are you up to organizing a London Idris Meetup? Tweet us at #whileitscompiling or @skillsmatter 

Bodil will be giving a talk on how to Build Your Own LISP for Great Justice at the Functional Programming eXchange 2014.

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